TizzyAlexander's Post on Fighting
My Older post on Equilibrium
My Older post on Fights
The Pedagogy of the Privileged - From the Economist
The disaster of Monolingual Britain - From the Economist
Regarding Tizzy's Post:
I'm not married... but somehow, I always end up giving relationship advice -- and this has been true since I was in middle school, 4-5 years before I ever had a one on one conversation with a girl. Bizarre, eh? But somehow, for whatever reason, some people just assumed that I'd have some useful insight...
The real irony to responding to Tizzy's post is that I'm now engaging in a discussion with a rather wise and insightful young lady who is actually married and has spades of committed, covenantial experience with maintaining constructive harmony with a mate. So... She can rely on 1) Scripture, 2) Experience, 3) Her partner, 4) Her wisdom/insight. I'm relying on - 1) Scripture, 2) Philosophy, 3) Theoretical Conjecture, 4) Making stuff up.
Talk about discussing from a disadvantaged position!
I'll start by saying I like her thoughts on the matter, but the purpose of discussion is to sharpen our understanding -- hopefully, I can do just that -- for I can give up on gainsaying her perspective~!
In an ideal marriage, there would no fighting. This is because conflict within marriage is caused by selfishness, and in an ideal marriage there would be no selfishness. Most people think this should be a GOOD thing.
I don't actually know if this is completely true... Firstly, what are we using as a definition for fighting? Using the inference that one would draw between the two statements that Vagrant and Tizzy make up mutual working definition: "we don't fight - we disagree, but we don't shout," and "Yes, we fight, but we don't shout," I think we can come up with a basis for discussion for what is a fight. The modification in the above statement shows that fighting is a disagreement, with or without loud voices.
That's probably the definition I used growing up... Using my definition in the context of a relationship sometimes got me into bigger fights, because I'd say something to the effect of, "Why are you yelling at me?" meaning, "Why are you upset with me (even though you're using a low-volume voice)." To which the other might say, "I'm not yelling..." And then things would degenerate.
So, if we use the term disagree as a proxy for fight, then we have to pose a couple scenarios.
Tizzy's first scenario is one where we are completely unselfish.
This is because conflict within marriage is caused by selfishness, and in an ideal marriage there would be no selfishness. Unfortunately the only place where we can have an ideal marriage is in Heaven, where, ironically, there is no marriage.
So while on earth, all of us are sinful and selfish, so we will fight. Most people think this is a BAD thing.
To clarify her statement, I think she's talking about selfishness as a subset of sinfulness. While on earth, we will be given to sin, and thus self-interest, and thus be brought into conflict with another self-interested individual. Why? Because in the short term, our self-interests may at times coincide, but just as easily differ.
But there's more to it than that. Several of the problems two individuals have when trying to see "eye to eye" on any given topic is: 1) We have different lexicons/terms. 2) We have different basic operating definitions. 3) We have different priorities. 4)We have different methodologies for execution. 5) We have different "victory conditions."
If we were to be selfless, the above would still be true. If we were sinless, and thus operating perfectly within God's revealed will and intentions, then the above is still probably true, as we were made differently (fearfully and wonderfully to boot). If we had the mind of God, and were able to assimilate everything and thus perfectly understand every perspective within the fabric of contrary opinions, then we might be able to agree, despite every nuanced difference that we possess.
These differences will always create a need for on-the-fly adjustments, and moreover, since individuals are also dynamic, they too will change, and all of their decision/action characteristics will also change. As such, even with perfectly unselfish people, they may define "good" for themselves and for their other differently, requiring re-definition and re-coordination.
In short, I agree with Tizzy's conclusion that a fight-free marriage is impossible on this side of eternity, but for a slightly different reason. We cannot be fight-free/disagreement-free without being perfect in motivation and insight.
We can, however, be harmonious in our disagreement.
But imagine what happens when we fight. One of us, or both of us, will not get our way. Considering that both of us are selfish, it is actually good practice not to get our own way. It is a way that God uses to teach us to be selfless. This is a GOOD thing.
I love this paragraph.
And imagine further a selfish marriage within which there is no fighting. This means that one of the parties is getting his or her way all the time, and the other one is giving in to everything. This means that the selfish person will never get redeemed from his/her selfishness. This is a BAD thing.
There is, actually, an exception to this -- which is also patently impossible, though philosophically possible. (I thought about this one in high school)... If two self-interested individuals are actually seeking to please the other to get the other to please them -- then they might be given to this scenario. More ominously, you could have two people who are selfishly coincident in their interests at all times. Then they could both be free to "pursue happiness" at all times, and not get in one another's way.
Fat chance, eh?
Or else, this could mean that both parties are getting their own way all the time, by not interacting with each other. Spouses that never cross paths rarely fight. Not only do they not get purified, they also don't really have a marriage. This is a BAD thing.
Well put.
I think fights/disagreements are good.
Without them, you're not communicating.
Assertion 1). You are "unique." Therefore your characteristics will differ from your spouses, though perhaps only by degrees. (I put unique in quotations, because -- well, it's almost facetious to use this phrase at times).
Assertion 2). You are intentionally made. The differences are purposed and useful. (Psalm 139:13-14)
Synthesis 1) You and your spouse are supposed to be different, and those differences should be respected and esteemed. When you disagree, take it as an opportunity to see how God has made someone differently, realising that those differences may indeed enhance you and your life together. You, collectively, are a microcosm of the church. If Romans 12 applies to us individually in the context of the body as a whole, then it certainly applies to us individually in the context of a marriage.
Assertion 3) Everyone is a sinner. Some of the decisions we would like to make will be erroneous and sinful. Some of the ways we do things will be hurtful. (Romans 3:23)
Assertion 4) There is strength in numbers: Ecclesiastes 4:9-12.
Assertion 5) God honours groups that gather in his name: Matthew 18:20
Synthesis 2) We tend to have many moments of weakness. Having a spouse can help us continue onwards, even when we "fall down". If one wants to be cute, you can say that husband + wife + God = 3... in the context of a God centered marriage. But even if we don't want to be cute, the thought remains.
When we sin, or are about to sin, our mates can help remind us of our sinfulness... and remind us to be more like Christ. This is less a difference in nature than a difference in timing. One may be irritable and short, hopefully the other can try to quell such tempestuousness.
Assertion 6) We communicate differently and use different words
Assertion 7) Lack of understanding leads to festering conflicts.
Synthesis 3) It's better to bring a conflict out into the open to discuss and come to a common understanding than to "bury it" and let it simmer.
Communication about points of disagreement can be explosive, but it doesn't have to be. It can be civil... and loving. I think by remembering that God loves the other as much as he loves you, it's easier to listen to the other with Grace and acceptance. The disagreement may remain, but at least it will be understood. Hopefully, you married someone's whose goals and operating methods aren't antithetical to yours. If they vary by degrees, some synthesis should be achievable.
It's not win or lose, when we're talking about a couple. As a couple, as one flesh, the unit needs to prosper, not the individual parts... I like to think of it this way; does your right brain need to "trash" your left brain, and win all the time? Your composite mind may have a preferred mode, but its not ever all one or another -- unless the brain has been injured...
A couple is more than the sum of its parts. Each half has much to offer and some degree of disagreement is the rule; we are, after all, different.
Learning to coordinate these differences requires mutual respect and a heart that is "quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger."
Wow... that can be hard to do, eh?
I guess that's why we need Grace.
Oh...
16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. James 5:16(NIV)
The best thing about this is, you've got someone you'll be sinning against and confessing to...right in your own home.
Confess your sins... it's a vital part of healing. (Too big a topic.)
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